Xfce 4.12 stabilization

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Xfce 4.12 stabilization

Yves-Alexis Perez-2
Hi,

[please don't add any unnecessary trolling about logind/systemd]

I know that most of the Xfce core developers are currently busy with
real life and stuff like that. Few 4.11 releases were done, but as far
as I can tell we're not currently really ready to release 4.12: there
are stuff which I guess can be considered as blockers, like the upower
1.0 transition [1], (optional) support for logind, fallbacks etc. Some
other might surely be found in the bugzilla, for example I'm puzzled
with the xfce4-session session management bug [1]

For Debian, it's pretty clear we'll have to do the logind and upower
transition for Jessie (freeze planned nov 5th, 2014), so I'm interested
in having a 4.12 release before that.

Is there anything we can do to help pushing this goal forward,
especially considering I am no developer but packager, so it's more an
offer to help wrt. release management than code itself. Anyway, at that
point and considering the current status, I think it's a bit unrealistic
to imagine adding much features to the codebase, and it's safer to try
to stabilize 4.11 and make sure it works in the current ecosystem.

[1]: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=upower%200.99
[2]: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10963

Regards,
--
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Re: Xfce 4.12 stabilization

capo clement
> I think it's a bit unrealistic
> to imagine adding much features to the codebase, and it's safer to try
> to stabilize 4.11 and make sure it works in the current ecosystem.
>


Please fix CSD-related bugs in xfwm for 4.12 as well.



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Re: Xfce 4.12 stabilization

Yves-Alexis Perez-2
In reply to this post by Yves-Alexis Perez-2
On mar., 2014-06-24 at 10:34 +0200, Yves-Alexis Perez wrote:

> Hi,
>
> [please don't add any unnecessary trolling about logind/systemd]
>
> I know that most of the Xfce core developers are currently busy with
> real life and stuff like that. Few 4.11 releases were done, but as far
> as I can tell we're not currently really ready to release 4.12: there
> are stuff which I guess can be considered as blockers, like the upower
> 1.0 transition [1], (optional) support for logind, fallbacks etc. Some
> other might surely be found in the bugzilla, for example I'm puzzled
> with the xfce4-session session management bug [1]
>
> For Debian, it's pretty clear we'll have to do the logind and upower
> transition for Jessie (freeze planned nov 5th, 2014), so I'm interested
> in having a 4.12 release before that.
>
> Is there anything we can do to help pushing this goal forward,
> especially considering I am no developer but packager, so it's more an
> offer to help wrt. release management than code itself. Anyway, at that
> point and considering the current status, I think it's a bit unrealistic
> to imagine adding much features to the codebase, and it's safer to try
> to stabilize 4.11 and make sure it works in the current ecosystem.
>
> [1]: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=upower%200.99
> [2]: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10963
>
Ping?
--
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Re: Xfce 4.12 stabilization

Nick Schermer-2
Hi,

We can look into fixing the session problems and make (at least) unstable releases. For 4.12 I have no idea what the status is. Feature wise it looks good I guess, but I have no idea about the critical bugs.

Nick


On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Yves-Alexis Perez <[hidden email]> wrote:
On mar., 2014-06-24 at 10:34 +0200, Yves-Alexis Perez wrote:
> Hi,
>
> [please don't add any unnecessary trolling about logind/systemd]
>
> I know that most of the Xfce core developers are currently busy with
> real life and stuff like that. Few 4.11 releases were done, but as far
> as I can tell we're not currently really ready to release 4.12: there
> are stuff which I guess can be considered as blockers, like the upower
> 1.0 transition [1], (optional) support for logind, fallbacks etc. Some
> other might surely be found in the bugzilla, for example I'm puzzled
> with the xfce4-session session management bug [1]
>
> For Debian, it's pretty clear we'll have to do the logind and upower
> transition for Jessie (freeze planned nov 5th, 2014), so I'm interested
> in having a 4.12 release before that.
>
> Is there anything we can do to help pushing this goal forward,
> especially considering I am no developer but packager, so it's more an
> offer to help wrt. release management than code itself. Anyway, at that
> point and considering the current status, I think it's a bit unrealistic
> to imagine adding much features to the codebase, and it's safer to try
> to stabilize 4.11 and make sure it works in the current ecosystem.
>
> [1]: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=upower%200.99
> [2]: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10963
>
Ping?
--
Yves-Alexis

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Re: Xfce 4.12 stabilization

Simon Steinbeiss
On Tue, 1 Jul 2014 10:15:14 +0200
Nick Schermer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> We can look into fixing the session problems and make (at least) unstable
> releases. For 4.12 I have no idea what the status is. Feature wise it looks
> good I guess, but I have no idea about the critical bugs.
>
> Nick

Actually it doesn't look too bad in terms of critical bugs. There are the aforementioned issues with the transition to UPower1.0 (xfpm already supports it).
Other than that we shipped big portions of 4.11 in Xubuntu 14.04 and so far there has been no shitstorm and no crazy increase in bugreports either. I guess that's the policy of "keeping git master release-ready" paying off.

But yeah, we could still start to compile a list of release-critical bugs to get an overview of the general 4.12 situation.

Cheers,
Simon


PS: Awwh crap, accidentally hit "send" too early in my reply earlier, so sorry for the double-post but at least now I'm back in the thread :p
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Re: Xfce 4.12 stabilization

Harald Judt
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Am 01.07.2014 12:11, schrieb Simon Steinbeiß:

> On Tue, 1 Jul 2014 10:15:14 +0200 Nick Schermer <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> We can look into fixing the session problems and make (at least)
>>  unstable releases. For 4.12 I have no idea what the status is.
>> Feature wise it looks good I guess, but I have no idea about the
>>  critical bugs.
>>
>> Nick
>
> Actually it doesn't look too bad in terms of critical bugs. There
> are the aforementioned issues with the transition to UPower1.0
> (xfpm already supports it). Other than that we shipped big portions
> of 4.11 in Xubuntu 14.04 and so far there has been no shitstorm and
> no crazy increase in bugreports either. I guess that's the policy
> of "keeping git master release-ready" paying off.
>
> But yeah, we could still start to compile a list of
> release-critical bugs to get an overview of the general 4.12
> situation.
>
> Cheers, Simon
>
>
> PS: Awwh crap, accidentally hit "send" too early in my reply
> earlier, so sorry for the double-post but at least now I'm back in
> the thread :p

I have one bug I'd like to mention so it is not forgotten, about the
shortcut code in libxfce4ui I reported here:
https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10373

There seems to be other bugs about shortcuts with the super key to be
found in the bug tracker, but I haven't looked at them. Not sure if
someone else would consider this critical, but it's in one of
the core packages, which should be stable. Additionally, it's a
regression, pretty annoying and means loss of functionality (for
someone who launches most apps with key shortcuts).

In general, I agree a new list of release-critical bugs or some sort
of "road-map" would be a good idea. Looking at the bug tracker, you'll
miss the forest for the trees.

Harald

- --
`Experience is the best teacher.'

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Re: Xfce 4.12 stabilization

Alistair Buxton
I also have a lot of patches and a few bugs that I've identified but
not sure how to fix properly. Mostly relating to Xfwm, Xfdesktop,
panel, and multimonitor. Many of these bugs I can't see a perfect
solution so I need input from others to decide the least bad fix.

+1 for making a list.

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Re: Xfce 4.12 stabilization

Nick Schermer-2

Lets put a list in the 4.12 roadmap wiki than. I also have more time to help since I moved the my house last week.

Nick

Op 1 jul. 2014 15:28 schreef "Alistair Buxton" <[hidden email]>:
I also have a lot of patches and a few bugs that I've identified but
not sure how to fix properly. Mostly relating to Xfwm, Xfdesktop,
panel, and multimonitor. Many of these bugs I can't see a perfect
solution so I need input from others to decide the least bad fix.

+1 for making a list.

--
Alistair Buxton
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Re: Xfce 4.12 stabilization

André Miranda-2
Great news :)

On 01/07/2014 11:47, Nick Schermer wrote:
>
> Lets put a list in the 4.12 roadmap wiki than. I also have more time
> to help since I moved the my house last week.
>
> Nick
>
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Re: Xfce 4.12 stabilization

Jackson Doak
Could all packages be have autoreconf ran so we aren't forced to carry an ubuntu delta for that?
Also, most of the xfce packages carry patches from debian and ubuntu that could be added to the git, so before release could someone look at what can be taken?


On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 12:53 AM, André Miranda <[hidden email]> wrote:
Great news :)


On 01/07/2014 11:47, Nick Schermer wrote:

Lets put a list in the 4.12 roadmap wiki than. I also have more time to help since I moved the my house last week.

Nick

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Re: Xfce 4.12 stabilization

Simon Steinbeiss
In reply to this post by Nick Schermer-2
On Tue, 1 Jul 2014 16:47:07 +0200
Nick Schermer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Lets put a list in the 4.12 roadmap wiki than. I also have more time to
> help since I moved the my house last week.

I've started something here: https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/4.12/roadmap/critical-bugs
(Obviously WIP, so please do chime in!)

Cheers
Simon
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Re: Xfce 4.12 stabilization

Yves-Alexis Perez-2
In reply to this post by Jackson Doak
On mer., 2014-07-02 at 06:11 +1000, Jackson Doak wrote:
> Could all packages be have autoreconf ran so we aren't forced to carry
> an
> ubuntu delta for that?

Run dh_autoreconf?

> Also, most of the xfce packages carry patches from debian and ubuntu
> that
> could be added to the git, so before release could someone look at
> what can be taken?

I usually try to upstream Debian patches, when relevant. If some of them
are missing, feel free to push them to the bugzilla, that'd be really
helpful.
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Re: Xfce 4.12 stabilization

capo clement
In reply to this post by Yves-Alexis Perez-2
Please add this bug (please support mwm hints completely) to the list of critical bugs for 4.12:
https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10631

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Re: Xfce 4.12 stabilization

Matthew Brush
On 14-07-04 04:19 PM, capo clement wrote:
> Please add this bug (please support mwm hints completely) to the list of critical bugs for 4.12:
> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10631
>    

And all of the resulting future bug reports for having a way to globally
turn application-specific window management back off.

Cheers,
Matthew Brush

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Re: Xfce 4.12 stabilization

Guido Berhoerster-6
In reply to this post by capo clement
* capo clement <[hidden email]> [2014-07-05 01:19]:
> Please add this bug (please support mwm hints completely) to the list of critical bugs for 4.12:
> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10631

That would introduce a ton of new problems as you can see in
the linked GTK metabug
https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10631#c30
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Re: Xfce 4.12 stabilization

Matteo
In reply to this post by capo clement
I would add this bug to the list of critical bugs:

https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9193


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Re: Xfce 4.12 stabilization

Johannes Lips-2
In reply to this post by Simon Steinbeiss
On 04/07/14 11:06, Simon Steinbeiß wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Jul 2014 16:47:07 +0200
> Nick Schermer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Lets put a list in the 4.12 roadmap wiki than. I also have more time to
>> help since I moved the my house last week.
Hi all,

I would like to propose the following bug report as a blocker for thunar.
https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10979
It keeps crashing on me everytime I unmount my phone.

Cheers,
Johannes

>
> I've started something here: https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/4.12/roadmap/critical-bugs
> (Obviously WIP, so please do chime in!)
>
> Cheers
> Simon
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Re: Xfce 4.12 stabilization

Alistair Buxton
Hi,

Per my comment on the bug report, that's already fixed. It was a bug in gtk2.

See https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=723366

On 16 July 2014 20:08, Johannes Lips <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 04/07/14 11:06, Simon Steinbeiß wrote:
>> On Tue, 1 Jul 2014 16:47:07 +0200
>> Nick Schermer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Lets put a list in the 4.12 roadmap wiki than. I also have more time to
>>> help since I moved the my house last week.
> Hi all,
>
> I would like to propose the following bug report as a blocker for thunar.
> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10979
> It keeps crashing on me everytime I unmount my phone.
>
> Cheers,
> Johannes
>>
>> I've started something here: https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/4.12/roadmap/critical-bugs
>> (Obviously WIP, so please do chime in!)
>>
>> Cheers
>> Simon
>> _______________________________________________
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>> [hidden email]
>> https://mail.xfce.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce4-dev
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
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Re: Xfce 4.12 stabilization

Yves-Alexis Perez-2
In reply to this post by Yves-Alexis Perez-2
On mar., 2014-06-24 at 10:34 +0200, Yves-Alexis Perez wrote:
> For Debian, it's pretty clear we'll have to do the logind and upower
> transition for Jessie (freeze planned nov 5th, 2014), so I'm interested
> in having a 4.12 release before that.

Just a quick followup on that. Nov 5th is the final freeze deadline. For
Xfce which involves library transitions (for libxfce* and xfce4-panel),
the deadline is actually Sep 5th [1], which is basically tomorrow.

The critical bugs page [2] looks clean, but I'm unsure having a 4.12
final release for Sep 5th is really realistic.

The fallback options for us would be:

- keep Xfce 4.10 with patches for logind and upower-0.99 [this is the
current state in unstable right now, with problems at least in
xfce4-power-manager [3,4,5]]
- upload current Xfce 4.11 targeted to Debian Stable [not something I'm
prepared to do, if the code is not stable enough to be released
upstream, it's not stable enough for Debian Stable]
- an intermediate situation would be to keep Xfce 4.10 and hope for an
xfpm 1.4 release which would fix the current issues.

None of them look really appealing to me, but the latter one is the one
I'm considering for now. My preference being a timely 4.12 release, but
I'm unsure how to help, most of the critical issues either have patches
which need test/commit or need thorough investigation which is best done
by the people who wrote the software, which seem to have little time
right now.

[1]: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/07/msg00002.html
[2]: https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/4.12/roadmap/critical-bugs
[3]: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=727605
[4]: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=757238
[5]: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=755234
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Re: Xfce 4.12 stabilization

Eric Koegel
Hi

On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 12:22 PM, Yves-Alexis Perez <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On mar., 2014-06-24 at 10:34 +0200, Yves-Alexis Perez wrote:
>> For Debian, it's pretty clear we'll have to do the logind and upower
>> transition for Jessie (freeze planned nov 5th, 2014), so I'm interested
>> in having a 4.12 release before that.
>
> Just a quick followup on that. Nov 5th is the final freeze deadline. For
> Xfce which involves library transitions (for libxfce* and xfce4-panel),
> the deadline is actually Sep 5th [1], which is basically tomorrow.
>
> The critical bugs page [2] looks clean, but I'm unsure having a 4.12
> final release for Sep 5th is really realistic.
>

Yeah, we'd have to do the pre1 releases now to come close to hitting that goal.


> The fallback options for us would be:
>
> - keep Xfce 4.10 with patches for logind and upower-0.99 [this is the
> current state in unstable right now, with problems at least in
> xfce4-power-manager [3,4,5]]
> - upload current Xfce 4.11 targeted to Debian Stable [not something I'm
> prepared to do, if the code is not stable enough to be released
> upstream, it's not stable enough for Debian Stable]
> - an intermediate situation would be to keep Xfce 4.10 and hope for an
> xfpm 1.4 release which would fix the current issues.
>
> None of them look really appealing to me, but the latter one is the one
> I'm considering for now. My preference being a timely 4.12 release, but
> I'm unsure how to help, most of the critical issues either have patches
> which need test/commit or need thorough investigation which is best done
> by the people who wrote the software, which seem to have little time
> right now.
>

  Well I just did an xfpm 1.3.1 release (with the wrong version number
in the subject...) so that we can have a 1.4 stable before Sep 5. If
you'd rather stay on 1.2 we can also look into back porting the fixes
so distros don't have to carry a large patch diff for it.
Additionally, I can also back port fixes for xfdesktop 4.10 if you'd
like (along with fixing a couple bugs dealing with the image list
crashing that don't apply to 4.11).

  If you run into issues with xfpm and SystemD you may want to talk to
Simon or Sean since they did a lot of work and testing with it.

  I also have a branch for xfce4-session I've been playing with. It
should fix the Support for UPower 0.99 critical bug (it supports
LoginD, UPower 0.9.7 - 0.9.23 using upower's suspend/hibernate, pkexec
with xfsm-helper for UPower 0.99+ [so much for standards]). Since xfpm
went to using pkexec instead of the sudo helper I did the same with
xfsm. It also includes a couple other patches that were sitting in
xfsm's bugzilla. It's located at:
http://git.xfce.org/users/eric/xfce4-session/log/?h=xfsm-new

Cheers,
Eric
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