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Menu Editor

Raphael Groner
Hello,

this mail goes to both, developers and users of Xfce.

I am still interested in that thing with a featured and working menu
editor for Xfce (or maybe not bound to a specific DE at all, this
probably depends on the libraries being used).

Alacarte is rudimentally supported by the applicationsmenu internel
plugin of xfce4-panel. But Alacarte brings a lot of problems that can't
be fixed on Xfce's site, as so far I understand the ongoing discussion.
I won't list those well known issues here cause we have had this
discussion again and again. Similiar discussion have been there around
about other half-dead projects for an usable menu editor.

Better let us look forward and more optimistically. My proposal would
be to start a collection of wished features for a new Menu editor that
can be nicely integrated into the Xfce philosophy.

Can we take that point of a Xfce Menu Editor as a goal for Xfce 4.12? I
appreciate any ideas about features for that new project. First, we
need a good name. All other wishes are welcome as well. :)

Best regards,
Raphael
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Re: Menu Editor

Christoph Wickert-2
Am Samstag, den 05.05.2012, 20:47 +0200 schrieb Raphael Groner:

> Can we take that point of a Xfce Menu Editor as a goal for Xfce 4.12? I
> appreciate any ideas about features for that new project. First, we
> need a good name.

Hi Raphael,

you seem to suffer from a common misunderstanding about how Xfce or Free
Software in general works. It's not "I want a pony" but "I am willing to
do this". We don't need a name or feature requests before we have
somebody who is willing to do the work.

Are you that person?

Kind regards,
Christoph


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Re: Menu Editor

Raphael Groner
Hi Tomás,

thanks for your nice offer. Please consider to continue the discussion
on the list, so everyone interested can share all information.

Can you provide more information to your project? Share the source
online somewhere?

Regards,
Raphael


Am Sat, 5 May 2012 16:26:42 -0300
schrieb Tomás Acauan Schertel <[hidden email]>:

> Hi Raphael.
>
> I'd like to help you if you start a menu editor for xfce.
> I already have a started project but it's just a beginning.
> I did my editor using python. How about that?
>
>
> --
> Tomás Schertel
> ----------------------------------------------
> Linux Registered User #304838
> Arch Linux User
> http://www.archlinux.org/
> ----------------------------------------------
>
>
> On Sat, May 5, 2012 at 4:11 PM, Christoph Wickert <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Am Samstag, den 05.05.2012, 20:47 +0200 schrieb Raphael Groner:
> >
> > > Can we take that point of a Xfce Menu Editor as a goal for Xfce
> > > 4.12? I appreciate any ideas about features for that new project.
> > > First, we need a good name.
> >
> > Hi Raphael,
> >
> > you seem to suffer from a common misunderstanding about how Xfce or
> > Free Software in general works. It's not "I want a pony" but "I am
> > willing to do this". We don't need a name or feature requests
> > before we have somebody who is willing to do the work.
> >
> > Are you that person?
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Christoph
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Xfce4-dev mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://mail.xfce.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce4-dev
> >

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Re: Menu Editor

Raphael Groner
In reply to this post by Christoph Wickert-2
Christoph Wickert christoph.wickert at googlemail.com
Sat May 5 21:11:02 CEST 2012
> Are you that person?

That mostly depends on what is expected from that person. I ask for
feature requests. We have Alacarte at hand with more or less working
patches having to be applied. But there's an idea from me to start
completely from scratch, with garcon instead of gnome-menus2. So what
are your doubts?

Regards,
Raphael
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Re: Menu Editor

Raphael Groner
In reply to this post by Christoph Wickert-2
Christoph Wickert christoph.wickert at googlemail.com
Sat May 5 21:11:02 CEST 2012
> Are you that person?

Well, that really depends on what is expected from that person. We have
Alacarte around there. I can patch Alacarte for myself to get it working
well for my needs (if there are any at all). When I talk with other
users, they seem not to be so happy to have to patch Alacarte by
themselfs due to there's no official release for Xfce needs.

Considering my work, the idea is to replace gnome-menus2 with garcon.
Maybe if Alacarte gets started in a special Xfce only mode (by
parameter or so). There are users around who don't want to install any
Gnome stuff at all, can you imagine this?

A good collection of so far available patches can be found here:
<alacarte-xfce> https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=50850

Last but not least, some users have already complained not being happy
with Alacarte at all because of that and that feature not working how
they expect or missing completely …

So the question goes back to you: What are your doubts?

Regards,
Raphael
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Re: Menu Editor

Harald Judt
In reply to this post by Raphael Groner
Am 05.05.2012 20:47, schrieb Raphael Groner:

> Hello,
>
> this mail goes to both, developers and users of Xfce.
>
> I am still interested in that thing with a featured and working menu
> editor for Xfce (or maybe not bound to a specific DE at all, this
> probably depends on the libraries being used).
>
> Alacarte is rudimentally supported by the applicationsmenu internel
> plugin of xfce4-panel. But Alacarte brings a lot of problems that can't
> be fixed on Xfce's site, as so far I understand the ongoing discussion.
> I won't list those well known issues here cause we have had this
> discussion again and again. Similiar discussion have been there around
> about other half-dead projects for an usable menu editor.
>
> Better let us look forward and more optimistically. My proposal would
> be to start a collection of wished features for a new Menu editor that
> can be nicely integrated into the Xfce philosophy.
>
> Can we take that point of a Xfce Menu Editor as a goal for Xfce 4.12? I
> appreciate any ideas about features for that new project. First, we
> need a good name. All other wishes are welcome as well. :)
>
> Best regards,
> Raphael

As for the features...

Or perhaps "how it should look like"? I have only seen screenshots of
Alacarte, but those make it seem a bit uncomfortable to use. Maybe it's
better to create something from scratch. So here are some ideas to
support an efficient workflow:

* Menus/Submenus and applications in one tree?-view (WYSIWYG) where the
   menus can be collapsed/expanded. I find the Alacarte approach
   with the menu/item separation inflexible and confusing.

* Additionally, use an own area to the right or below the tree-view
   that shows the properties of the menu/application (name, command,
   path,...). One should not have to double-click the item in the
   tree-view and have to deal with an extra dialog to modify or see
   something. This would mean lots of tedious extra clicks.

* Add a new item via the context menu or the main menu at the place of
   the current selection.

* Drag & Drop of single and multiple items. Alacarte seems to have only
   cumbersome "move up"/"move down" buttons? Connect move up/down to
   shortcuts.

* Copy & paste existing entries.

* Search for and filter applications. Maybe one could use
   xfce4-appfinder to add new entries via drag & drop?

Harald

--
`Experience is the best teacher.'
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Re: Menu Editor

Natanael Copa-5
In reply to this post by Raphael Groner
On Sat, 5 May 2012 21:41:05 +0200
Raphael Groner <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Am Sat, 5 May 2012 16:26:42 -0300
> schrieb Tomás Acauan Schertel <[hidden email]>:

> > I did my editor using python. How about that?

Wouldn't vala use less memory?

-nc
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